Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/25/1996 09:05 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
  CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 468(FIN) am                                            
  "An Act making supplemental  appropriations for the expenses                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  of state  government and making and amending appropriations;                 
  ratifying  certain state expenditures;  and providing for an                 
  effective date."                                                             
                                                                               
  Alison   Elgee,   Deputy    Commissioner,   Department    of                 
  Administration  and  Sharon  Barton, Director,  Division  of                 
  Administrative Services, Department  of Administration  were                 
  invited to join the committee.   Sharon Barton said that the                 
  first  request  was to  fund a  new  attorney in  the Bethel                 
  office of the  public defender.   There has  been a  growing                 
  need  for additional  resources  from both  the prosecutor's                 
  office and the public defender agency  in Bethel.  Last year                 
  several  cabinet  members  went  to  Bethel to  assess  that                 
  situation and  came back with  the report that  one attorney                 
  for both  the prosecutor's  office and  the public  defender                 
  agency  needed  to be  added.   The prosecutor's  office has                 
  already done so and  a delete is proposed from  the division                 
  of finance based on early implementation of FY 97 reductions                 
  to fund  $49,000 for the remainder of  the year.  The second                 
  request is the  annual supplemental for the  public defender                 
  agency in the  amount of  $217,000.  This  should be  funded                 
  under Rule 39 Receipts which are  available this year.  This                 
  is a  personal services  shortfall.   Although cost  savings                 
  measures  have  been implemented  throughout  the   year the                 
  caseload,  not  only in  Bethel,  but in  Anchorage  and the                 
  Valley has increased dramatically  during 1996 and positions                 
  could not be  kept vacant  as would have  been done to  live                 
  within that authorized  budget.  The public  defender agency                 
  handled some 17,300 cases in 1995 and expects to handle over                 
  18,000 in  FY 96.  That is more  than 300 cases per attorney                 
  per year.  Co-chairman Frank asked that she prepare a report                 
  that shows the public  defender case load by offense  so the                 
  committee can  see how many  felonies and in  particular how                 
  many misdemeanors and what types.                                            
                                                                               
  Senator  Phillips asked if  PFD's were collected  to pay for                 
  the services  requested from  the public  defender.   Sharon                 
  Barton indicated that  Department of Law does  collect PFD's                 
  and is proposing that this supplemental be funded from those                 
  collections.   She said  that Rule  39 allows  the Court  to                 
  collect permanent fund  dividends of convicted  persons both                 
  felons and misdemeanants.   This has been done for  the last                 
  three years.   She further explained  the collection is  for                 
  services after  the fact.  Those  who do not file  for their                 
  permanent fund dividend  cannot be forced to.   Alison Elgee                 
  said that permanent  funds were  only withheld from  persons                 
  actually convicted  of the  crime for  which they  have been                 
  charged.   Permanent fund  dividends are  not withheld  from                 
  everyone because felons who serve any portion of time during                 
  the  course  of  the year  are  not  eligible  to receive  a                 
  dividend.   The collection is  handled by the  Department of                 
  Law under the court Rules.  They file a judgment against the                 
  individual at the time of conviction.  Co-chairman Frank and                 
  Senator Phillips think it is a good idea to collect up front                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  for public defender  services but Alison Elgee said that the                 
  Court is appointing these individuals to the public defender                 
  agency.  The dividend  comes once a  year and people do  not                 
  hold onto it  in anticipation of  committing a crime to  pay                 
  later.   There are  timing difficulties.   Senator  Phillips                 
  said that the checks could be garnished later after the fact                 
  and she said that is what is being done.                                     
                                                                               
  Senator  Donley  said the  public  defender agency  was just                 
  subject to audits showing they are defending too many people                 
  and they are not  trying to reduce the inflated  budget they                 
  have  had  for years.   He  stated his  concern at  seeing a                 
  supplemental.                                                                
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Frank asked  Senator Phillips to take  a look at                 
  the audit.  Senator Donley said  as compared to other states                 
  during the last  three years none  of their cases have  been                 
  overturned for lack  of quality of  counsel.  There are  two                 
  public defenders  for every  one prosecutor  in some  towns.                 
  They need to be cut this year.                                               
                                                                               
  Sharon Burton  explained the  situation with  the office  of                 
  public advocacy and  noted that they were  requesting $356.4                 
  for contractual services  for contract attorneys, witnesses,                 
  investigative fees and travel  costs.  They went into  FY 96                 
  believing they were close to full funding for  OPA, however,                 
  they have experienced  case load increase.  They  opened 65%                 
  more criminal  defense cases  in the  first three months  of                 
  1996  than during the  same period of 1995.   It is expected                 
  the 70 new police officers on  the streets of Anchorage will                 
  add to this growing case load.  She will provide a breakdown                 
  on  percentages  of  child-in-need-of-aid   versus  criminal                 
  defense.    Alison Elgee  said  that  OPA also  does  public                 
  guardian work and represent  parents in child-in-need-of-aid                 
  cases  through  their contract  attorneys.    Senator Donley                 
  asked for a list of costs for the public defender agency and                 
  OPA and what their standards are and what quality of defense                 
  they provide.                                                                
                                                                               
  Senator Sharp asked  the difference  in the requirement  for                 
  criminal defense between the public defender agency and OPA.                 
  Sharon  Barton explained  that  if there  is  a conflict  of                 
  interest at the public defender agency  it was then given to                 
  OPA.  The public defender cannot  refuse any case other than                 
  for conflict  of interest.   Senator Sharp  asked about  the                 
  amount  of  involvement in  criminal  procedures by  OPA has                 
  risen measureably over the last year and does that equate to                 
  an equal increase in indictments or prosecution  by the DA's                 
  office or is  this just  OPA out hustling  clients?   Alison                 
  Elgee explained that there are a  number of factors that are                 
  increasing the caseload  for both  agencies; the new  police                 
  officers in Anchorage; impacts  of newly passed legislation;                 
  third DWI felony offense.  The fiscal notes were cut in half                 
  by  this  body  and if  they  had  been  fully funded  still                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  understated what in fact  is being seen as a result  of that                 
  legislation.  There are more  murder felony trials going on.                 
  Senator Sharp said that they were  told by the Department of                 
  Law prosecutors that as the new laws came on they would have                 
  to let others drop because they  could only handle a certain                 
  volume.  Has the volume increased dramatically on the number                 
  of prosecution cases out  of the DA's office?   Alison Elgee                 
  said that it is the DA's choice whether to bring charges and                 
  file against these cases.  Senator Sharp asked if there were                 
  more  indigent people involved on  DWI's than on the others?                 
  Alison Elgee said  the DA's office  is seeing the same  case                 
  load increase  in the  DWI felony  as we  are.   Co-chairman                 
  Frank asked Kathryn Daughhetee to look at the last decade of                 
  the  public defender  and OPA  as relates to  their criminal                 
  defense and how  it has compared to  the prosecutor's office                 
  to see if the growth has been commensurate.                                  
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger asked if other than DWI cases were there very                 
  many misdemeanor cases that resulted in a jail term.  Alison                 
  Elgee said they would check into it.                                         
                                                                               
  Sharon Barton  referred to leasing and said  the request was                 
  for  $170,000.   The conference  committee FY 96  budget was                 
  $1.2 million short of anticipated lease obligations.  It was                 
  at the Senate's initiative  that $300,000 was put as  a last                 
  minute supplemental  to pre-pay some of the FY 96 costs.  In                 
  pre-paying we were  able to reduce  the shortfall for FY  96                 
  obviously and saved the State some                                           
  $18,000 in discounts for pre-payment.   In 1996 there was an                 
  unanticipated  additional cost of  $96,000 arising  from the                 
  need to enter into leasing on  the Juneau Subport land which                 
  is now held by the Alaska Mental Health Land Trust.  For the                 
  first time  we were  required to  pay rental  to the  Trust.                 
  That pushed the  shortfall back  over $1  million.   General                 
  Services has done everything possible to reduce FY  96 costs                 
  and was able to manage that figure down from over $1 million                 
  to $870,000 but has no  avenue left to reduce it  further in                 
  1996.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Senator Sharp  said there  was  a new  procurement act  that                 
  covers   leasing   and   how   it   allows   Department   of                 
  Administration to enter  into new  leases or renewal  leases                 
  that  was  being   looked  at   in  State  Affairs   without                 
  legislative approval  if they get  over 5%  or 10%  savings.                 
  Has there  been any  savings in  the last  twelve months  by                 
  renewed, replacement or renegotiated leases?                                 
                                                                               
  Dugan  Petty,   Director,  Division  of   General  Services,                 
  Department  of  Administration  was  invited   to  join  the                 
  committee.   He said there had been nothing specifically for                 
  lease extensions  and returns  for rent  concessions.   This                 
  committee made an amendment to legislation to allow us to do                 
  that.   There was an 18-month  window which expired December                 
  last year.   During  this fiscal  year period  we have  been                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  without  the opportunity to enter  in to lease extensions in                 
  return for  rent concessions.   If we are  able to  get that                 
  ability into  law again  there are  more opportunities  that                 
  would present themselves for lease  extensions in return for                 
  rent  concessions.    Co-chairman  Frank  asked if  OMB  has                 
  provided   any   instructions    relative   to   the   space                 
  considerations in lease renewals?   How does this  work when                 
  the department would like more space or conversely,  has OMB                 
  told  the departments to do with less space?  Mr. Petty said                 
  that for a number of years a set of space standards has been                 
  established within  the Department of  Administration.   Co-                 
  chairman Frank asked Mr.  Petty to give a break down  of the                 
  leasing  budget  by  department for  over  the  last several                 
  years.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Sharon Barton said the request for  Retirement & Benefits is                 
  $450,000  of benefit  receipts.   This  request is  to cover                 
  increased cost for investment management and record  keeping                 
  services for the  supplemental benefit annuity plan  and the                 
  deferred compensation  plan.  Fees  are paid by  each member                 
  for  this purpose and  are tied  directly to  the investment                 
  return of the plan.  The  costs have increased somewhat this                 
  year for investment management and record keeping because of                 
  our dramatic increase in  our investment return in SBS.   It                 
  has been about  25% this year  where we had anticipated  and                 
  budgeted for  about 8% - 10%  return.  Success  in that area                 
  has resulted in the  need for this supplemental.   The other                 
  piece  that has contributed to  the supplemental is the need                 
  to  educate  SBS members  about  the shift  to self-directed                 
  investment which has taken place  in SBS.  Benefit  receipts                 
  are available to cover this cost because it has already been                 
  charged to the members  based on the increased value  of the                 
  assets.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger asked if the compensation for the managers is                 
  based  on  the  total  market  value  of  the  assets  under                 
  management or based  on the return.   Sharon Barton said  it                 
  was based  on the  assets.   Co-chairman Frank  concurred in                 
  reading the book and  asked Senator Rieger to look  into the                 
  matter.  Janet  Parker from Retirement &  Benefits confirmed                 
  that it was based on assets.                                                 
                                                                               
  Sharon  Barton said  that  longevity  bonus  was  requesting                 
  ratification of $23,100 spent in FY 95 to complete the final                 
  payment in FY 95  of longevity bonus grants.  Last  year the                 
  longevity  bonus  program  ended  up  $23,000 short.    That                 
  shortfall was covered from the administrative component that                 
  has  administrative responsibilities  over  the program  but                 
  because it is  in another appropriation  we need to  request                 
  legislative ratification  for  that  expenditure.    Senator                 
  Sharp asked if this was clean-up  for 1995 and Sharon Barton                 
  indicated that  it was.  He asked  if the department had any                 
  statistics available  for the amount of attrition by debt or                 
  loss  of  eligibility  of the  $250  per  month participants                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  compared to how  many new  ones are  coming in  at $100  per                 
  month  and also has a short  term absence from the State the                 
  amount they lose when they are out for thirty days or longer                 
  has that trended up or down?   It seems there should be some                 
  dramatic  savings here  very shortly  after the end  of this                 
  year with no new entrants  and natural attrition taking hold                 
  at the high end.  It would  be logical the $250 people would                 
  be the highest  attrition level.    Sharon Barton said  what                 
  has been discovered  is that  the national mortality  tables                 
  are in fact too high and  have been overstating mortality in                 
  this population.  Adjustments are being made.  It is correct                 
  that  the  $250 group  is  realizing the  greatest mortality                 
  because  they  are  the  oldest  population  group  in  this                 
  program.   After the  end of this  calendar year we  will be                 
  closed to new participants  but we will not see  the effects                 
  of  that  down turn  until fiscal  year  98 because  we will                 
  continue to bring people on to  the program during the first                 
  six months of fiscal year 97, only realizing those people in                 
  the program for  a full year in  the fiscal year 98  cycle.                  
  Senator Sharp indicated that there would  be a bubble of new                 
  applicants coming in  that far exceed  two for one on  those                 
  that are exiting the  program because of one problem  or the                 
  other.   She said  there was  a new  bulge in  terms of  new                 
  applicants and a lot of them could have applied much earlier                 
  for one of the  higher bonus levels but for  whatever reason                 
  chose not to  and now  are getting into  the program  before                 
  that opportunity is closed to them.  Co-chairman Frank asked                 
  if that is people who have lived here for some time and just                 
  had not  applied?   He asked her to  provide a report on the                 
  nature  of  the new  applicants and  to  include a  state of                 
  origin.  She said they must have  resided in the state for a                 
  year  prior  to their  application  for the  longevity bonus                 
  program.  Information as to where they resided prior to that                 
  application may not  be available.  Co-chairman  Frank asked                 
  how they prove they had been  in the state for a year.   She                 
  said it was through a certification that they had been there                 
  for a year and would  provide a copy of the  application one                 
  has to fill out.  She felt it is a misconception that we are                 
  seeing a lot  of in-migration particularly relative  to this                 
  program.  Alaska is a net out-migration state which  exceeds                 
  the  in-migration  by  about 2%  in  that  population group.                 
  There is an aging in place that is quite dramatic for people                 
  who have lived here for a number  of years and are no longer                 
  leaving the State when they reach  retirement age.  He asked                 
  her  to  provide  the  committee  any  information  she  had                 
  regarding this  matter and  a projection  for both years  as                 
  soon as the information is available.                                        
                                                                               
  Guy Bell, Director,  Administrative Services, Department  of                 
  Commerce and Economic Development and Tom Garrett, Director,                 
  Division of  tourism,  Department of  Commerce and  Economic                 
  Development were invited  to join the  committee.  Mr.  Bell                 
  advised that they had  one request for $61,200 to  cover the                 
  cost  of combining the  tourism and trade  offices in Tokyo.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  This will reduce the annual lease  cost by about $50,000 and                 
  the general fund will be reimbursed  as full amount when the                 
  deposit  on existing space  is returned  December 1996.   He                 
  said the  new deposit was $31,000.   This request  is for an                 
  offset to  what the  general fund  will be  getting back  in                 
  December.  Senator  Rieger asked  for the total  of the  old                 
  lease and new lease cost.  Mr. Bell said the combined leased                 
  cost is $11,000  per month.   The new leased  space will  be                 
  approximately $7,000 per month.  Co-chairman Frank asked how                 
  many  square  feet  the  new  office  was  and  Mr.  Garrett                 
  indicated that it was approximately 31 square meters.                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Nancy Slagle, Director, Office of  Management and Budget was                 
  invited to  join the  committee and  testified on  behalf of                 
  Department of Community and Regional Affairs.  She said that                 
  under  section three,  the  department  requested $8,300  be                 
  transferred  from local  government assistance  to municipal                 
  revenue sharing to  cover the  expense of an  FY 95  revenue                 
  sharing payment for the native  village of Kluti-Kaah.  This                 
  is in  response to  the community  misplacing their  revenue                 
  sharing check.   Senator  Sharp  asked if  this village  had                 
  received municipal  assistance previously and  she indicated                 
  that she believed it had but would find out exactly.                         
                                                                               
  Senator  Donley  voiced  concern on  behalf  of  co-chairman                 
  Halford  regarding sovereignty  issues and wondered  if this                 
  was one of  the areas that was  recognized as a tribe.   Co-                 
  chairman  Frank  highlighted  the  matter  for   co-chairman                 
  Halford.   Nancy Slagle  said there  were many  tribal units                 
  that did receive money  for unincorporated communities under                 
  the  revenue sharing  program as  well as under  the capital                 
  matching  grants program.   She  said Kluti-Kaah  identified                 
  itself as a  native village  rather than  a tribal  council.                 
  Senator   Phillips   referred  briefly   to  Title   29  (AS                 
  29.61.040).    She  indicated  that  the  funding  agreement                 
  resolution  and native village  council waiver  of sovereign                 
  immunity had all been  taken care of.  Senator  Rieger asked                 
  if  the  misplaced warrant  was  for  a prior  year  and why                 
  issuing a duplicate check would change the aggregate size of                 
  the appropriation that was to cover all the original checks.                 
  She indicated that the check  could not be re-issued without                 
  an appropriation and since it was an FY 95 expenditure there                 
  was no access to FY 95 revenue sharing appropriation.  Those                 
  funds have lapsed.  Senator Rieger  asked why they could not                 
  make use of the old appropriation to  do them any good.  She                 
  indicated that the FY 96 appropriation was being amended not                 
  FY  95.  The  money is being  added to this  current year so                 
  that the  expenditure can be paid.   Senator Rieger referred                 
  to local  government assistance  and asked  what it  covered                 
  different from what is covered  in municipal revenue sharing                 
  or   state   revenue  sharing.     She   said  it   was  the                 
  administrative operations  of that  division.   No money  is                 
  being  asked  for and  it is  just  being shifted  from that                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  appropriation to the revenue sharing appropriation.  It will                 
  not have any effect on any proration.                                        
                                                                               
  Nancy Slagle  referred to rural  development grants, section                 
  3(b).  There is  a problem every year with the completion of                 
  those  grants  within  an annual  appropriation.    They are                 
  basically for  small construction  projects that  go out  to                 
  local  communities.    The  FY  97  request  includes  those                 
  actually  in the capital budget to eliminate this problem in                 
  not being  able to  complete them on  an annual basis.   She                 
  will provide the exact dollar amount to the committee.                       
                                                                               
  (tape SFC-96, #49 switch to side 2)                                          
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger referred to the spread sheet and asked her to                 
  explain the extended  lapse date  and the  grey shaded  area                 
  which  says "not  accepted  in the  original  bill" and  the                 
  Governor's  amended  request  line  where  there  are dollar                 
  figures  re-entered.   She said   on  the  rural development                 
  initiative loan fund request it had been asked that the fund                 
  be capitalized  with  monies from  AIDEA.   They  wanted  to                 
  continue this basic loan fund which is running out of money.                 
  There  are applications outstanding  for projects  that they                 
  would  like to  be  able to  fund and  continue.   The House                 
  Finance Committee decided that they  would pull this section                 
  out to deal with under the capital budget side.  It has been                 
  requested  as  an  amendment  to   the  capital  budget  for                 
  consideration.                                                               
                                                                               
  Barbara  Ritchie, Deputy  Attorney General,  Civil Division,                 
  Department of Law  was invited to  join the committee.   She                 
  explained subsection  (c) and  (d) and  informed that  these                 
  would settle up front early pending attorney fees and claims                 
  in these three cases.   Basically it is set up  as a pre-pay                 
  so there  would be a  discount on the amount  that the State                 
  owes.  Two  of these  cases, since the  bill was  introduced                 
  have been resolved.   This proposed settlement for the three                 
  would only cover attorney fees  and costs, resolving the fee                 
  and cost issues between the state and Alaska Legal Services.                 
  It  does  not  include  co-counsel.    With  respect  to the                 
  language  saying  that no  pending  issues exist  the intent                 
  there is that no pending issues exist as of the time of that                 
  notification.  There is a stipulation pending on two of them                 
  which largely vacates  the Superior  Court judgment and  all                 
  the items that were a problem for the State and the attorney                 
  fees are settled in that case for $60,000.   In the "Decker"                 
  case, which was  a medical assistance case,  since this bill                 
  has been pending the matter of attorney  fees have continued                 
  on in motion practice in the Superior Court and an order was                 
  received ten days  ago for attorney  fees and costs in  that                 
  case  in  the amount  of  $3,661.   The  only  one remaining                 
  unresolved is the "Quinahak" case and it is more problematic                 
  as far as resolving it.   At this point a decision was  made                 
  to wait and  see what happened  at the Senate Finance  level                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  with  regard  to that.   We  did  not want  to enter  into a                 
  settlement  of   that  case   on  attorney   fees  if   this                 
  appropriation  did  not  come  through.   "Quinahak"  is  in                 
  litigation and the matter of attorney fees is still pending.                 
  Co-chairman Frank asked why this  was being done differently                 
  than other  cases against the state?   Why is it  not C&RA's                 
  budget as opposed  to Department of  Law's budget for  other                 
  judgments,  claims and  settlements.   Nancy  Slagle advised                 
  that  Community  and Regional  Affairs  already has  a grant                 
  agreement with  Alaska Legal  Services that  is included  in                 
  their  annual  budget  in the  commissioner's  office.   Co-                 
  chairman Frank said  that his expectation when  Alaska Legal                 
  Services was funded was so they could represent these people                 
  not only in  suits against  the State but  in anything  they                 
  need.  Barbara  Ritchie said that  this was not the  typical                 
  way one would  see attorney fees  issues come forward.   The                 
  concept was to try and make  a proposal to basically pre-pay                 
  them either with or  without a settlement at a  discount and                 
  this would  constitute the settlement that  wasn't otherwise                 
  agreed  to  by the  parties.    Senator Rieger  asked  about                 
  "Sorenson" and "Decker".  Barbara Ritchie said attorney fees                 
  and  costs  were $3,661.68.    "Sorenson" is  $60,000.   The                 
  "Decker" case question  was whether the Division  of Medical                 
  Insurance had erred  in it's denial of  Mr. Decker's request                 
  for medical assistance for re-imbursement for dentures.  The                 
  main  issue on  attorney  fees was  whether this  was public                 
  interest litigation  or not  and Alaska  Legal Services  was                 
  claiming about $11,600  for full  fees.  The  Court did  not                 
  order those  and that  one was  resolved against  the State.                 
  The fee  level  came in  significantly lower  than they  had                 
  asked.  "Sorensen" was a class action challenging the Tier 2                 
  subsistence  permit  system  in  the  regulations  for moose                 
  hunting  in game  management  unit 16(b).    Several of  the                 
  claims were either  abandoned or  determined in the  State's                 
  favour.  The Superior  Court ruled against the State  on the                 
  parties' cross-motion  for summary  judgment.   It held  the                 
  board of game  had improperly determined the number of moose                 
  needed to provide a  reasonable opportunity for subsistence;                 
  that  the board had  improperly permitted  sport and  Tier 2                 
  subsistence  seasons   on  the  same  population;   and  the                 
  department of fish  and game appeal process  was inadequate.                 
  What the  parties ended  up doing  because neither  side was                 
  totally satisfied was coming up with a settlement acceptable                 
  to both parties and part of  the terms of the settlement was                 
  to essentially ask the Superior  Court to vacate significant                 
  portions of the actual findings in the Superior Court order,                 
  leaving  it  with the  bottom line  of  the final  order but                 
  taking out the reasoning that was problematic  for the board                 
  of game.  Senator Rieger asked if the $60,000 was stipulated                 
  to  and  she indicated  that was  correct.   In  the motions                 
  practice  Legal  Services  had  requested  about $68,000  in                 
  attorney fees.  It was an agreement of some $8,000 less than                 
  had been sought.  Senator Phillips referred to  the "Decker"                 
  case.    She  will  provide   further  information  for  the                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  committee.    Co-chairman  Frank asked  Senator  Phillips to                 
  review matter and give the committee a recommendation.                       
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator  Donley  asked  what   percentage  of  Alaska  Legal                 
  Services budget comes from the State and from other sources.                 
  Barbara Ritchie said  that they  are largely federal  funded                 
  via  the Legal Services Corporation which  is on the federal                 
  level.  The  state funding is a relatively  small percentage                 
  of that.   It is  not a match.   Senator Donley  said it  is                 
  pretty illogical for  us to  be funding an  agency and  then                 
  they use  that money to sue us and  then we have to pay them                 
  for their time that we already paid for in  the first place.                 
   Co-chairman Frank asked Senator Donley to work with Senator                 
  Phillips to  come up  with a  recommendation regarding  this                 
  matter.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Nancy Slagle  advised that  under section  4, Department  of                 
  Corrections was $936,600  for "Cleary" fines.  That is based                 
  on calculations through  January of the fines  that are due.                 
  Co-chairman Frank asked  if these  were for overcrowding  or                 
  other violations?  He said the fines showed through 1995.                    
                                                                               
  Robert Cole, Director,  Division of Administrative Services,                 
  Department of Corrections was invited to join the committee.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Nancy Slagle advised that an amendment  to the bill in House                 
  Finance  included  fines  calculated through  January.   Co-                 
  chairman Frank asked if we were suffering a fine today?  Mr.                 
  Cole advised that we were being assessed fines this very day                 
  from about seven facilities.                                                 
  Co-chairman Frank asked if those fines were based upon State                 
  law or not.  Mr. Cole said  they were in the "Cleary" order.                 
  Senator Donley asked  if in  the "Cleary" case  was there  a                 
  section that set  a time certain  or was it something  being                 
  extended year to year  by the State?  Mr. Cole  said that it                 
  is  an on-going  sanction and  believed it  was a  permanent                 
  settlement.  It  is down to  overcrowding and how women  are                 
  treated  in the  facilities, including  the availability  of                 
  programs.  There is a possibility  the Department of Law can                 
  basically settle the  "Cleary" case with the  Court if these                 
  two or three  issues can be ironed out.  Senator Donley said                 
  the  sooner  this  was behind  us  we  would  be better  off                 
  negotiating a new deal.  There will  always be a new lawsuit                 
  everyday  in  the corrections  system  as long  as  there is                 
  Federal Habeas Corpus.  He does have a proposal to amend the                 
  State  constitution  to adopt  the  same standard  for penal                 
  administration which would give a much larger body of law to                 
  deal with and more solid ground.                                             
                                                                               
  Senator Zharoff asked where the fines go.  Co-chairman Frank                 
  said  it has  not  been approved  but  it should  go  to the                 
  general fund.   Mr. Cole said  the way the appropriation  is                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  written  section  4 has  a  subsection  (b)  that  says  the                 
  appropriation made by  this section  is contingent upon  the                 
  attorney general's notification of the revise of statutes at                 
  OMB that no pending issues exist on the status of payment of                 
  fines and no Court  order has been entered in  "Cleary" that                 
  precludes the Alaska Court System  from depositing the funds                 
  collected under (a)  of this section  in the general  funds.                 
  The intent  is to make sure the  fines can only be deposited                 
  to the general funds.                                                        
                                                                               
  Nancy  Slagle  said  section  5  deals with  the  foundation                 
  program and  utilizes $1,225  million of  anticipated lapsed                 
  funds to go out  to additional districts to support  them to                 
  deal with the disparity issue.                                               
                                                                               
  Karen  Rehfeld,  Department  of  Education  and Eddy  Jeans,                 
  School Finance  were invited to  join the  committee.   Mrs.                 
  Rehfeld said since the State of Alaska recognized impact aid                 
  in the calculation  of State aid  for the school  foundation                 
  program it  was required  that a  federal disparity  test be                 
  met.  Changes  to the  federal impact aid  law reduced  that                 
  test  limit from  25%  to  20%.   In  order  to continue  to                 
  recognize that  impact aid  the ability  to utilize  current                 
  year funds for named recipient grants to the REAA's that are                 
  at the  bottom  end of  the  scale for  the  purpose of  the                 
  disparity scale  to  bring  them  within the  20%  is  being                 
  requested.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Mr. Jeans answered technical questions regarding  disparity.                 
  He   said  the  administrations   bill  would  increase  the                 
  deductible impact  aid for  REAA's from  90% to  95%   which                 
  would  offset   this  cost.    The  net  increase  would  be                 
  approximately $223,000.   Co-chairman  Frank asked  why that                 
  wasn't  proposed  for  FY 96  to  balance  out against  this                 
  distribution.      Mrs.  Rehfeld   said  that   because  the                 
  legislation to deal with  FY 97 was prepared they  felt they                 
  couldn't  get  the  legislation  through  to count  for  the                 
  current year and  that the supplemental approach  would give                 
  the time for the bill to  be reviewed by the legislature and                 
  incorporated for FY 97.  Co-chairman Frank said his  concern                 
  was if the disparity  problem was going to be  cured through                 
  this mechanism it  seems it should  cover both years on  the                 
  increase and the deduct so there  won't be a situation where                 
  they will take  the money, spend it and then  feel like they                 
  have a budget cut  next year.  Senator Rieger asked  if this                 
  would trigger a  hold harmless that exists in the foundation                 
  formula for budget  cuts.  Mr.  Jeans said that these  funds                 
  would not  affect the  hold harmless  within the  foundation                 
  program.  These  funds would secure  the State's ability  to                 
  measure impact  aid in determining  the State allocation.                    
  Senator Rieger  said that  he felt  the committee  needed to                 
  decide as a  finance committee policy or  legislative policy                 
  whether  to challenge the Feds on their change from a 25% to                 
  20% and whether  to take this head on or just acquiesce when                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  they change the  rules and  essentially require millions  of                 
  dollars to be  expended because they decide  a 20% disparity                 
  is better policy  than 25%.  Mr. Jeans  said that the impact                 
  aid law  was amended in 1994 and was moved into Federal law.                 
  There is not much room for negotiation.  Senator Rieger said                 
  that at some point it must be decided how far we are willing                 
  to go to let that $30 million we get from the Feds drive our                 
  $600 million  program.   We are  just being  tied around  in                 
  knots.   Senator Donley said that this disparity standard is                 
  based  somewhat on State assessments.   Mr. Jeans said under                 
  the  foundation   program  municipalities  are   allowed  to                 
  contribute  local revenue of  over and  above the  four mill                 
  required  local  effort.    Disparity  is a  measurement  of                 
  equity, a measurement of revenues.  Senator Donley said that                 
  some of  it is driven by how the state statutes are written.                 
  Co-chairman Frank asked  about dollars  per child.   If  one                 
  looks at dollars per  student it doesn't seem that  we would                 
  be out of disparity.   Some districts are getting  more than                 
  Anchorage  or Fairbanks per student.   Lower Kuskokwim as an                 
  example.   How  many dollars  are they  getting per  student                 
  versus Anchorage?   Mr. Jeans said  that the impact aid  law                 
  allows disparity  to be  measured on  whatever mechanism  is                 
  utilized to distribute  State aid.   Co-chairman Frank  said                 
  the  way  State  aid  was  distributed  should  be  changed.                 
  Senator Donley said  it was  a State problem  not a  Federal                 
  problem.  Co-chairman Frank said more money was going to the                 
  districts that are getting the most dollars per student now.                 
  Mr. Jeans said that they would be out of compliance in FY 96                 
  if  they   did  not  receive  these  supplemental  payments.                 
  Therefore, the State will not  be allowed under the  Federal                 
  law to consider impact aid in our 1998 distribution.                         
                                                                               
  Senator Sharp said  it is  hard to believe  that if  another                 
  $1.2 million is not added to last year's budget this year in                 
  June we are going to be  out of compliance for next year  if                 
  we  already  have passed  statute  that  takes  care of  the                 
  problem that has been proposed by the administration that we                 
  would lose next year's  $35 million.  Mr. Jeans said the way                 
  the disparity standard is  measured is on the data  from two                 
  years prior.  To meet the 1998 Federal  disparity of 20% the                 
  measurement  must be  using  FY  96  data.    Currently  the                 
  foundation law allows municipalities to  contribute 23% over                 
  and above basic need and that  is what causes our disparity.                 
  The  disparity   for   FY  96   without   the   supplemental                 
  appropriation was anticipated to be over  20%.  He said that                 
  any revenues allocated  to the school districts  through the                 
  foundation program  or other allocations that  have happened                 
  over the past few years are  included in the disparity test.                 
  Co-chairman  Frank  said that  disparity was  measured based                 
  upon how it was sent out.  Mr. Jeans clarified that when the                 
  revenues were  computed per pupil  the State of  Alaska does                 
  not  allocate the  funds  on  a  per pupil  basis.    It  is                 
  allocated on instructional  units.  All the  revenues within                 
  the school district's operating funds are taken and they are                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  divided by  their instructional  units as  opposed to  their                 
  pupils.  Co-chairman Frank said  that an alternative formula                 
  could  be devised that  did not use  the word "instructional                 
  unit" but  just divided  on  the basis of  how many students                 
  they had.   Mr. Jeans  concurred.  Senator  Sharp asked  how                 
  many years the  foundation formula was going  to be reworked                 
  to something everyone understood  and is fair.  There  is no                 
  justification for the $1.2 million.                                          
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger asked as an  alternative to changing from an                 
  instructional  unit to  an  ADM would  the  revision of  the                 
  geographic  cost  of  living differentials  also  bring  the                 
  disparity back within bounds?  Mr. Jeans said the  disparity                 
  is computed  on adjusted instructional  units.  If  the area                 
  cost differentials are adjusted it  is just reallocating the                 
  monies within the  formula.   It would  not bring  disparity                 
  down.   He said there  were a  number of ways  the disparity                 
  test  could  be  run.   Adjustments  can  be  made for  cost                 
  differentials  or   special  needs  groups  and   any  other                 
  adjusting factor within  the foundation program itself.   In                 
  this  state all the  adjustment factors are  included to run                 
  the disparity on the adjusted units.  The special  education                 
  and bilingual are included and the area cost differential is                 
  also  included when  the  disparity test  is  run.   Senator                 
  Rieger said that to the extent that the area differential is                 
  counted it is a matter of  dividing by the area differential                 
  to adjust downward  back to  an equivalent base  $100.   Mr.                 
  Jeans concurred but noted the differentials were included in                 
  the disparity test. They are not adjusted back out.  He said                 
  that the formula says, based on the adjusted units, everyone                 
  gets the same dollar  amount which would be the  $61,000 per                 
  instructional unit.  The area  differentials are included in                 
  the disparity  test.  One of  the reasons for this  would be                 
  the additional  local contribution  that municipalities  are                 
  allowed to contribute  is a product  of 23% of basic  needs.                 
  When basic needs are computed adjusted units are taken times                 
  the unit  value of $61,000.   It provides a  higher base for                 
  municipalities    to    contribute   their    excess   local                 
  contribution.                                                                
                                                                               
  Karen Rehfeld  said there  was an  original  request in  the                 
  supplemental  bill  to  allow for  carrying  forward  of any                 
  unexpended   balances   of  the   current   year  foundation                 
  appropriation  that  would offset  the  need to  utilize the                 
  public school fund revenues that had been proposed in the FY                 
  97 budget.   The house  version of the bill  did not include                 
  that  language.   Co-chairman Frank  asked how  much it  was                 
  expected  to  be  and Mrs.  Rehfeld  said  that  it was  the                 
  anticipated  amount in  addition to the  $1.2 that  is asked                 
  for.  Senator Phillips said this is $3 million.                              
                                                                               
  Nancy   Slagle   introduced   section   6,   Department   of                 
  Environmental Conservation,  extending the lab  state of the                 
  spill  prevention  and  response  underground  storage  tank                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  assistance program.                                                          
                                                                               
  Jim Hayden, Storage Tank Program  Manager, Division of Spill                 
  Prevention   and   Response,  Department   of  Environmental                 
  Conservation was invited to join the committee.  He said the                 
  carry  forward  presented originally  requested  that FY  96                 
  grant dollars be extended  until FY 98 and that  was changed                 
  in the house  version to FY 97.   The second part  (b) asked                 
  that prior year appropriations that are remaining be carried                 
  forward to 1997 to give some  extra time to close out  about                 
  forty grants that are currently operating to continue clean-                 
  up on some sites from spills.                                                
                                                                               
  Nancy Slagle introduced  section 7,  Department of Fish  and                 
  Game and noted that $32,700 was being requested to allow for                 
  the reimbursement of  vendor compensation  for sale of  fish                 
  and game licenses and tags.  This was an increased need over                 
  what was  originally  appropriated.   A  title change  on  a                 
  capital  appropriation  for   Arctic-Yukon-Kuskokwim  Salmon                 
  Fisheries stock assessment was requested.   It was taken out                 
  by house finance and included as an amendment to the capital                 
  budget request.                                                              
                                                                               
  Section  8,  Department  of   Health  and  Social  Services,                 
  subsection (a) deals with the use  of the anticipated lapsed                 
  funds in the public assistance area of $4 million in general                 
  funds and $500,000 in other funds.                                           
                                                                               
  Janet Clarke, Director, Division of Administrative Services,                 
  Department of Health and Social Services was invited to join                 
  the committee.    She  said the  case  load   for  AFDC  had                 
  declined this year.   Originally a budget was predicated  on                 
  an average of  13,700 families.   The case load is  actually                 
  about 12,500 families.  When the  supplemental needs for the                 
  department were  looked at, because  there was such  a large                 
  projected  case  load reduction,  areas  in the  budget were                 
  looked for where  it seemed  like a good  use of  additional                 
  funds.    The $4  million  reduction  in general  funds  was                 
  originally to be spent for  $500,000 in child care  benefits                 
  because  there is  an  increase  demand  on the  child  care                 
  program.  That is where the $500,000 in the federal receipts                 
  is being spent in  the next section.  The  federal authority                 
  was not reduced.   The funds  will be restricted within  the                 
  AFDC program.   Since the reduction  of $4 million has  been                 
  submitted there has been a little  change in the thinking of                 
  their ability to  receive federal receipts.  Perhaps if this                 
  were to be  done again reduction in  federal authority could                 
  be shown in the  AFDC program.  Those federal  receipts will                 
  not be spent because that is a 50/50 match program.  Senator                 
  Phillips  asked why  there  was  a  reduction  in  the  AFDC                 
  request.   She said  they feel it  has something  to do with                 
  their efforts in  the JOBS  program and  getting people  off                 
  AFDC and  getting them to  work and some  of the efforts  to                 
  change the culture of  the eligibility determination office.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Economy also plays a big part in  any reduction in case load                 
  in AFDC.  There are a  number of other factors that lead  to                 
  case load  reduction.   Senator  Phillips  asked if  it  had                 
  anything  to do  with welfare reform.   She said  it had not                 
  been  investigated  but  clearly  with  all the  talk  about                 
  welfare reform it is  likely to have some impact  on someone                 
  choosing to seek  assistance.  Co-chairman Frank  asked what                 
  the $1.9 million and $500,000 were being spent on now.   She                 
  said that  was  subsection (b)  and  it is  the  eligibility                 
  information  system.     There   have  been   a  number   of                 
  appropriations.    Co-chairman  Frank  asked  if  this   was                 
  software  or  hardware.    She  said   it  was  both.    The                 
  eligibility information system is a mainframe system and has                 
  been for  a number of years.  It is not very flexible and as                 
  the welfare system is  being changed in the offices  it does                 
  not work  very well  for the  current interview  techniques.                 
  This $3.5 million allows one-time money that would otherwise                 
  elapse,  allows   purchase  of  front-end   PC's  that   can                 
  interphase with the mainframe  system, allows contracts with                 
  the software developer that can build those systems that the                 
  eligibility  workers can use  that will  get people  back to                 
  work.  Co-chairman  Frank asked about  $1.9 on one line  and                 
  $500,000 on the other and are they both the same thing?  She                 
  said there were  two subsections,  (a) and (b).   The  first                 
  subsection  is  actually  a delete  add  into  the childcare                 
  benefit program.   Last year  the budget  was predicated  on                 
  having an  average of  1,400 children in  childcare and  the                 
  case load  has increased to about  1,600.  This is  all good                 
  news  because  there  are  more   people  working  who  need                 
  childcare  assistance.      Part  of   this  assistance   is                 
  transitional where former  AFDC clients are entitled  to one                 
  year of  child care  benefits after  they get  off of  AFDC.                 
  There are real families and children who are using the child                 
  care benefits.   Senator Rieger asked about  the eligibility                 
  information system and asked if the  house did not allow the                 
  $1.6  million of federal  receipts but only  $1.9 million of                 
  general funds or is the whole thing  in there?  She said the                 
  house did allow the  $1.6 million in receipts.   There could                 
  have been a  reduction of the  same amount shown of  federal                 
  receipts in AFDC.  Senator Rieger said the required match by                 
  the  Feds  for  computer  eligibility  projects was  a  more                 
  attractive match perhaps 3 to 1.  She said that in  the past                 
  they had been  very successful in  getting one time  federal                 
  appropriations  for the eligibility  information system.  It                 
  has been about  78% federal funds.   That happened to  occur                 
  with one time federal participation.  The typical match rate                 
  is about 55%  federal participation because only  some state                 
  programs  are  run.    The  eligibility  information  system                 
  manages the adult public assistance  program.  Federal match                 
  cannot be claimed on that part of any change made.  She went                 
  on to  subsection  (c) and  said that  it was  a delete  add                 
  supplemental.    Within  the division  of  family  and youth                 
  services between  the regional components  where the  social                 
  workers and juvenile probation officers  are funded and into                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  the  youth  facilities.   What  happened this  year  is that                 
  unfortunately  they  were not  successful  in either  one of                 
  these areas in  getting registers  available to hire  either                 
  social  workers or  youth counselors.   Since there  were no                 
  registers available  overtime had  to be  paid  in order  to                 
  staff facilities.                                                            
                                                                               
  (tape change to SFC-96, #50, Side 1)                                         
                                                                               
  She further indicated  this was  a delete add  supplemental.                 
  OMB  suggested  they  look  for  delete  add   supplementals                 
  wherever they could so  that it would be a net  zero request                 
  when they came before the legislature.  Senator Donley  said                 
  the youth counselor excesses were  from their own management                 
  decisions.  She  said they spent considerable  time with the                 
  Division  of  Personnel suggesting,  convincing, justifying,                 
  opening  up  these  registers  for  continuous  recruitment.                 
  These  registers  have  been  closed  for about  two  years.                 
  Senator Donley said maybe an adjustment could have been made                 
  by closing the facility  for one day a week.   She indicated                 
  that these were  24-hour detention facilities and  cannot be                 
  closed for  a day.   Specifically,  Johnson and  McGlaughlin                 
  Youth Centers.    The department  was  requesting  delegated                 
  authority to  do their  own examining  and recruiting.   Co-                 
  chairman  Frank  said  the  Department  of  Corrections  had                 
  authority to do  their own registers and  perhaps Department                 
  of Personnel  in the  Division of  Administration should  be                 
  gotten rid of and let the departments do their own.                          
                                                                               
  Ms. Clarke  went on  to the  medicaid program  and said  the                 
  budget that had been put forward  had been predicated upon a                 
  growth rate of  10.6% in the  medicaid program.  The  growth                 
  rate  is reduced  to about  6% and  this is  a reduction  of                 
  general funds.  The federal funds will not be spent but they                 
  will be restricted  internally.  This  is a reduction of  $7                 
  million  totally to the medicaid program and funds that will                 
  not be spent.   Subsection (d) is a superior  court judgment                 
  case involving a  former employee of the  Alaska Psychiatric                 
  Institute.  The  individual was  laid off in  the summer  of                 
  1992  and  the individual  was  able  to show  the  court an                 
  incident  that  occurred  six  months  prior to  her  layoff                 
  involving  a  sexual  harassment  case  was the  reason  the                 
  department laid her off.   Co-chairman Frank wanted  to know                 
  why the  matter was  not in  the Department  of Law.   Nancy                 
  Slagle said there  were no  hard and fast  rules about  what                 
  would  appear  in  Department  of  Law  as  opposed  to  the                 
  agencies.  In  the past most of the  amounts which appear in                 
  the Department of  Law's judgments and claims  sections deal                 
  with  attorney fees  and costs.   Anything else  beyond that                 
  normally goes  into agency  requests.   That  is not  always                 
  adhered to, however.  Co-chairman  Frank asked if the person                 
  got re-hired.  Ms.  Clarke indicated no.   Co-chairman Frank                 
  said if the layoff was proven  to be the result of a  sexual                 
  harassment  incident  the individual  was  not asking  to be                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  rehired, but rather she  just wanted a big settlement.   Ms.                 
  Clarke concurred and noted that the Superior Court did order                 
  punitive damages which are on appeal.   That is not included                 
  in  the  supplemental.   The  actual award  was  $263,000 in                 
  compensatory damages,  although the  court awarded  interest                 
  back to the time she was laid off.  There are  several years                 
  of interest plus attorney fees within this dollar amount.  A                 
  significant part of this is not  related to the actual award                 
  for the individual.   Co-chairman Frank asked how  the Court                 
  looked at the  fact that she did  not ask for her  job back.                 
  How did they  determine the appropriate amount  for damages?                 
  She  said it was  unusual because this  individual took this                 
  case  to  court and  did not  really  go through  the normal                 
  grievance arbitration  process because there was a link to a                 
  sexual harassment incident.                                                  
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger referred  to  the findings  and fact  of the                 
  judgment.  He wanted to know if that included an itemization                 
  of what added  up to the  $263,000 of compensatory  damages.                 
  She said that there  was a summary and noted  that they were                 
  not  paying  the  punitive  damage of  the  award.   Senator                 
  Phillips asked  who made  the  request for  a trial  without                 
  jury.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Barbara Ritchie,  Deputy Attorney  General, Civil  Division,                 
  Department of Law  was invited to  join the committee.   She                 
  said  either  side could  request  a  trial by  court.   She                 
  referred to a prior sexual harassment case.  She clarified a                 
  few matters on  the judgment saying the  $200,000 awarded on                 
  punitive damages is not being paid as it is on appeal.   The                 
  court  did cut the punitive damages claim in half.  For pain                 
  and suffering the  individual had  claimed $100,000 and  the                 
  court cut  that in half  to $50,000.   The court  denied any                 
  relief for future economic losses.  The plaintiff has cross-                 
  appealed  on  that issue  as  to  the future  damages.   The                 
  outcome of this trial  was well within the assessed  risk of                 
  going to trial.   Prior attempts  to settle the case  before                 
  going to  trial had  been unsuccessful.   The  plaintiff had                 
  wanted  a settlement well  in excess of  $500,000.  Senators                 
  Phillips and  Rieger asked  for a  break down  of the  Court                 
  award.  Co-chairman Frank indicated that co-chairman Halford                 
  would  look  into the  requests  and  give the  committee  a                 
  recommendation.  He put  Ms. Ritchie's testimony on  hold in                 
  order to take up the Department of Transportation.                           
                                                                               
  Nancy Slagle introduced section 13(a) dealing with emergency                 
  repairs related to southcentral flood  disaster  highway and                 
  bridge repair in the amount of $4 million.  $1.10 million is                 
  general fund and $3 million are federal funds.                               
                                                                               
  Mr.   Joseph  L.   Perkins,   Commissioner,  Department   of                 
  Transportation and Public Facilities was invited to join the                 
  committee.   He indicated he  would answer any  questions on                 
  the  Copper Highway Bridge relating to the $1 million bridge                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  work that was  going to  be done  or if  there were  further                 
  questions on the flood portion of this.  He said $800,000 of                 
  the  match money covers  about $7.5  million of  new federal                 
  funds.  These  are not in  the program but rather  emergency                 
  funds.   There is  authority in  place for  $4.5 million  so                 
  authority is needed for $3 million  which makes the total of                 
  $7.5  million.    Co-chairman Frank  indicated  there  was a                 
  question  on  the  over expenditure  of  DOTPF's  prior year                 
  ratification noted in section 15.                                            
                                                                               
  Nancy  Slagle  indicated  that  legislative  audit  has gone                 
  through and identified  several areas  where there are  over                 
  expenditures or undercollection of revenues in going back to                 
  1983 and  has recommended  that agencies  come forward  with                 
  ratification requests to take care those  if they can not be                 
  dealt with administratively.   There  is a  review that  was                 
  done  by  the  division  of  audit and  management  services                 
  concerning the ratification process and  a response has been                 
  provided to the committee.  DOT  has a request of $5,923,400                 
  which takes care of all ratification problems that they have                 
  had and brings them current.   There are problems that occur                 
  when revenues are collected one year but the expenditures do                 
  not  take place  until  the following  year  or vice  versa.                 
  Senator Rieger asked if there  was anything available in the                 
  State's general fund  or was there  any change.  Ms.  Slagle                 
  indicated  there was  no  change.   This  was an  accounting                 
  clean-up as opposed to an additional need for general funds.                 
  These expenditures have already taken place.                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator  Sharp referred  to section 13(b)  and asked  if the                 
  $720,000  was all in restoration  or are there legal fees or                 
  payments to  third parties included.   He indicated  that he                 
  had read in the  paper that all the costs basically  were to                 
  restore  and put  back  into shape  any stream  crossings or                 
  trees that fell off the cliff down in the Copper River or if                 
  there  were legal fees.   Senator Phillips indicated that in                 
  the  department's  back  up  material  it  states  that  not                 
  included in the estimate are  legal fees due the  Department                 
  of Law, attorney  fees for the  Trustees of Alaska or  costs                 
  incurred by Resources or Fish and Game.  Senator Donley said                 
  the  committee wanted  to know  what they  were getting  for                 
  $720,000.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Commissioner Perkins said that the  department had agreed to                 
  have public service announcements as far as the wetlands 404                 
  program is concerned.   That has been in settlement  for the                 
  last two years.   It is not a big problem and the state will                 
  get  some benefits  if wetland violations  can be  cut down.                 
  Next, environmental training for the  department staff.  The                 
  department is involved  in extensive programs in  all of the                 
  regions with the maintenance and construction people to make                 
  them aware of what comprises 404  for wetland violations.  A                 
  person has been  hired to deal with the Corp of Engineers on                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  all permitting matters.   This was necessary and should have                 
  been done because there  are so many cases of  disaster type                 
  situations where the law can be violated just as easily.  He                 
  cited the  example of the flood  in Seward and  gave a brief                 
  synopsis on the Copper River situation.  Senator Sharp asked                 
  for clarification on the statement that "these estimates are                 
  for the year 1997" and  then the second set which says  "not                 
  included are the following...", which  are the Department of                 
  Law, Trustees for Alaska, Fish & Game and DNR.                               
                                                                               
  Commissioner Perkins said they would like to have the option                 
  within the  $125,000 for  fisheries enhancement  and a  good                 
  project  is developed by Fish and  Game we would want to RSA                 
  them to do the work rather than DOT.                                         
                                                                               
  Ms. Slagle indicated that although this  referred to a FY 97                 
  activity it actually  needs to begin  this year.  There  are                 
  some   bid  contracts  being  opened  up  now.    There  are                 
  requirements  of that  settlement that  certain things  take                 
  place within a certain number of  days.  Senator Sharp asked                 
  if there was an estimate for the "future requirements of the                 
  consent decree" that must be met?  Commissioner Perkins said                 
  he did not have a cost estimate  on that.  Co-chairman Frank                 
  asked that  a copy of  the consent decree  be provided.   He                 
  also  asked  where the  attorney fees  for the  Trustees for                 
  Alaska was coming from.                                                      
                                                                               
  Craig  Tillory,  Environmental   Section,  Civil   Division,                 
  Department  of  Law  testified   via  teleconference.     He                 
  indicated that  the last  item for  $125,000 for  structural                 
  repairs and fish  path construction is  not a fish and  game                 
  item.    Those are  to put  in  culverts in  locations where                 
  material filled in previous fish passages to ensure the fish                 
  can  move  back  and  forth.    He  said  the  provision  of                 
  settlement was  to pay $40,000  to the Trustees  for Alaska.                 
  That  is not in  this amount.   The Court is  waiting on the                 
  United  States Department  of Justice  to file  a  motion to                 
  approve  the  settlement  which  we  have been  waiting  for                 
  approximately one and a half months.  In addition there will                 
  be an environmental project done at a cost  of not less than                 
  $400,000, something  the legislature  approves  of and  will                 
  have to be done before the year 2003.  There will also  be a                 
  fisheries enhancement project  in the  State of Alaska  that                 
  Fish and Game will be working  on for not less than $50,000.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Zharoff  asked about  the highways  and the  bridges                 
  that were  damaged during  the flood.   Can  the bridges  be                 
  relocated?  Commissioner Perkins said it had been looked but                 
  the capital  cost of replacing the bridges or realigning the                 
  roads is prohibitive.                                                        
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  The  meeting   adjourned  at  approximately  11:10  A.M.  to                 
  reconvene tomorrow at 8:00 A.M.                                              
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects